I watched the video and read the comments in response and came up with this conclusion: You are a FOOL. Period. WE ALL are more depraved than we know. But what I was actually going to say is that you are a fool if you do not test Nate Pfeil's message in Scripture, regardless of what side you take. He quotes Scripture throughout - and everything he says is based on Scripture... Read the Book! Research where in the Word he gets his position from. If you think you have a contrary position to what he said, find what Scripture you base it on... and here's the KEY: view your rebuttal Scripture through the lens of whether it reveals the Sovereign Glory of God and not what sits well with your heart (your heart is full of deceit - Jer 17:9). We have this AMAZING book to be our teacher of truth. DO NOT TRUST what notions you feel about God to be Gospel truth but what is in the Word. Do not be one who hardens his or her heart to the GRACE assured in the video just because you feel offended and think his...method unloving, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Jesus was not "loving" in the sense He was to the poor in spirit when He railed on the religious Pharisees... Jesus was ruthlessly hard on them. Yet many condemn Nate's approach as not reflective of Christ's ways... My heart is heavy first because I do all I and Nate speak against here too and need to repent; but also for the games we play in trying to prove how right or wrong the professed Word of God is from one another when it clearly magnifies the Lord and not man, the essential measure rod we all should apply... I fear you don't find messages like Nate's pleasing because it is the stench of death to you (2 Cor 2:15-16). I find it most pleasing because He represents the God I see in His Word, one obsessed with His Glory (for good reason) more than the well-being of a perverse people. I'm tired of it being about us. He is so much more exciting than anything I can offer.
Then my friend commented and asked:
This fellow and Washer have caused me to wonder if fear of damnation is enough to motive a person to truly follow God. How can a desire to preserve your soul from pain turn into the selfless devotion to God that is at the heart of Christianity?
I also disagree with your comment about God being obsessed with his glory. Philippians 2 seems to suggest that God glorified Christ because of his humility and concern for "the well-being of a perverse people." Obviously, we are meant to learn that concern for our own well-being is ungodly but God's glory seems to be enhanced by the fact that he is willing to give it up for us.
Then I responded:
If a 16-yr-old just got her license to drive and her dad, at a party, hands her the keys to a brand new Bugatti Veyron, who will get the glory? Her or the dad? Who did the more impressive act? I use this as illustrastion because the HUMBLE act of making propitiation for an utterly undeserving people, and the cost of the act (the full wrath of God being poured out on His perfect, sinless Son) point to how great He is; the method is just that, not purpose.
That's just the human argument. Look at Scripture: Romans 3:21-26 "to demonstrate His righteousness"; 9:22-23, Psalm 50:15-23, Isa 48:9-11. Is God's glory an after-thought to His loving "giv[ing up] for us"?
As far as fear by enough to motivate "a person to truly follow God," consider this: God's ultimate purpose in creating and restoring Creation is to make His internal glories (at the time) external, specifically on the cross - research (supra)lapsarianism (sp?). If God made us with the intent for His Glories to be known, and He uses fear to motivate us to get into the Book to find out who He truly is, what harm has occurred, and who is the clay to tell the Potter what is just and right (Romans 9, see end of Job too)? This answers your question: the fear of damnation leads to the desire to preserve your soul, which in turn makes you go to the Book to find out how to truly follow God; the Book teaches you who God is (when you, with contrite spirit take off the man-centered glassed that have distorted the Word before) and when you truly know Him, you know His worth and you naturally devote yourself to Him selflessly, for He is worth it!
Add Isaiah 53:10 to prove God is obsessed with His glory. Why else would the Father be PLEASED to CRUSH HIM [Jesus], His only begotten Son?! The display on the cross was intentional; it displays the glory of God more than anything! If you don't see that you are blind, and in danger of falling in the ditch of man-pleasing... God reveal this to your sheep!
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